Well, This is Disturbing...

[reason]

I hate hearing this stuff from someone who isn't a wacko:


UPI Hears...


By John Daly
UPI International Correspondent


Washington, DC, Jun. 13 (UPI) -- Insider notes from United Press International for June 8

A former Bush team member during his first administration is now voicing serious doubts about the collapse of the World Trade Center on 9-11. Former chief economist for the Department of Labor during President George W. Bush's first term Morgan Reynolds comments that the official story about the collapse of the WTC is "bogus" and that it is more likely that a controlled demolition destroyed the Twin Towers and adjacent Building No. 7. Reynolds, who also served as director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis in Dallas and is now professor emeritus at Texas A&M University said, "If demolition destroyed three steel skyscrapers at the World Trade Center on 9/11, then the case for an 'inside job' and a government attack on America would be compelling." Reynolds commented from his Texas A&M office, "It is hard to exaggerate the importance of a scientific debate over the cause of the collapse of the twin towers and building 7. If the official wisdom on the collapses is wrong, as I believe it is, then policy based on such erroneous engineering analysis is not likely to be correct either. The government's collapse theory is highly vulnerable on its own terms. Only professional demolition appears to account for the full range of facts associated with the collapse of the three buildings."

[Lew]

On this occasion I am 100 percent in agreement with Reason's comments. I've always been interested in paranoia, conspiracies, etc (I am not of that mindset, I've just always been fascinated by it) but you know, it's one thing to squawk about black helicopters, it's quite another to do this 9/11 stuff because almost 3,000 people died that day and I think it's an insult to their families when this crap starts up.

I listen to Coast to Coast quite frequently, they've had on as guests the wackjobs that spout this crap. Of course, over my objections, Popular Mechanics magazine recently ran a cover story debunking some of the top 9/11 myths. I say over my objection because, while it's great to inject critical thinking into things, an article such as that, appearing in a mainstream mag, only gives creedence to the hoax/conspiracy crowd. They feel they're now onto something since Popular Mechanics, obviously an arm of the government, is "onto them."

Stick to black helicopters, the illuminati, etc. If I ever see one of these 9/11 creeps in person, I think I'll light them on fire and then take a leak on them to put it out. OK maybe not that bad, but they are disgraceful human beings.

[cincygreg]

So they missed the part about two commercial jumbo jets slamming into the building, exploding and spilling thousands of gallons of airplane fuel which caught fire, and most likely melted the steel structure causing the floors to pancake ontop of each other adding extra stress tto the structure causing it to collapse?!?!??!

I think this one has been covered allready. SHEESH!

[gae]

Lew, it's easier to just wear a tinfoil hat. That way the bad thoughts can't corrupt your brain.

[travelinman]

Something that most people don?t know about or consider regarding the fire and subsequent collapse

Low-Voltage Cabling

Abandoned, low-voltage communications cabling in building structures is a serious fire hazard that prompted the 2002 NEC to require its removal.

by Frank Peri

This article deals with abandoned, low-voltage communications cabling in building structures, and the serious fire hazard concerns that prompted the 2002 National Electrical Code to require the removal of abandoned cable. The article was written with the goal of encouraging electrical inspectors and other AHJs to enforce code compliance.

In just the past 12 months numerous training and educational seminars have been held by industry trade organizations. Several major safety companies, riser management firms and responsible contractors now offer solutions for the removal of abandoned cable. Building owners, property managers, and the like, are being encouraged to take action in advance of compliance inspections to assess and put in place a removal plan for abandoned cables. Electrical inspectors also need to be brought up to speed.

The Problem
During the early to mid-70s, businesses and other organizations relied mainly on the telephone, perhaps augmented with fax and teletype capability, to round out their communications network. How the world has changed! The modern business environment has been completely re-engineered by the sharp and dramatic rise of ever-faster computer networks. These networks not only move voice and data but are essential to other building communications systems, such as environmental monitoring, security, fire, and new powered Ethernet devices. Each new generation of these systems relies on large amounts of high performance low-voltage cabling to operate reliably. However, as new higher performance cabling is installed, rarely is the old cable plant removed. This practice has resulted in layer upon layer of a mix of abandoned low-voltage communications cables imbedded in the concealed spaces of our commercial and public occupancies. This huge accumulation of abandoned cable presents a serious, hidden fire hazard to building owners, property managers and tenants.

Abandoned cable presents several problems. The large volume of accumulated cable not in use may prevent the installation of new cabling because of completely overfilled cable conduit pathways and spaces. Abandoned cable also may severely restrict airflow in ceiling cavity plenums. For these reasons, its removal may become a practical necessity. In fact, this is often done. During a major renovation when the building floor is gutted wall-to-wall, all low-voltage network and communications cable is removed.

However, the most serious problem from abandoned cables being allowed to remain in the structure is their potential to both fuel and spread a very large, very hot fire in concealed spaces, in the event of a building fire. Also large amounts of smoke are generated making the fire extremely difficult to find and fight. Over the years many types of cable made from a variety of materials have been installed, including 25 pair PVC telephone cable and IBM type cable. The fire spread problem is further exacerbated when firestopped penetrations are disrupted and are not adequately replaced or protected when new cabling is installed in the same pathways as the old.

Over half the weight of today?s typical 4 pair UTP (unshielded Twisted Pair) cable is comprised of plastic insulation and jacketing materials. For example, the installation of 100,000 feet of typical 4 pair UTP data cable places approximately 1200?1500 lbs. of exposed plastic materials in concealed spaces, when installed outside of conduit as permitted by the NEC. An average, large commercial office building can contain tens of thousands of pounds of plastic materials as part of the in-use cable infrastructure. Some of these plastic materials are engineered to resist high heat, flame spread and smoke generation, while others are not. Now add one or two layers of abandoned cable and even more, perhaps orders of magnitude more, plastic material is imbedded in the structure adding to potential fuel load depending on materials used. Compared to power cable, most of the combustibles in concealed spaces come from communications cabling. It?s easy to see why the combustibility or fuel load of remaining abandoned cable materials is so critical, and why abandoned cable should be removed.





NFPA Codes and Standards
Several devastating and tragic fires during the mid-to-late 70s, such as the MGM Grand in Las Vegas and the 1979 World Trade Center fire in New York, gave rise to new provisions in the NEC which required that new low-voltage cables installed in buildings be listed as to their flame spread and smoke generation characteristics. For example, only CMP type communications cables are permitted in ceiling cavity and raised floor plenum spaces. While this has been a major step forward in improving fire safety, the problem is still with us ? and we can do better.

According to the NFPA, there are, on average, 5800 fires in office buildings of six stories or more every year?2.5 fires every day! In recent years several of these office building fires, such as the 1996 Rockefeller Center fire in New York and the One Meridian Plaza fire in Philadelphia in 1991, along with many others, dramatically displayed the potential hazard from low-voltage communications cables, both abandoned and in use.

It should be noted that NFPA statistics and fire investigation reports do not explicitly attempt to target the role of communications cables in the spread of these fires. However, after studying the fire investigation reports, it is very clear to this author that we can construct a basic, empirical understanding of the mechanism of fire spread in many of these fires where cabling was involved. The ignition source for many building fires is electrical in nature, from overheating and electrical shorts. This clearly does not occur with low-voltage cabling, as there is insufficient energy to cause ignition of combustibles. However, since bundled communication cables are typically installed in the same risers and pathways near or adjacent to power cables, the large amounts of low-voltage cabling are quickly exposed to the fire. As shown above, some of the materials used in these cables can behave as a solid fuel, spreading the fire vertically in the risers and horizontally across ceiling cavity plenums

more here

[reason]

trav,

Are you implying that abandoned cable wires exacerbated the problem in the World Trade Center?

[travelinman]

Yes.

The 2005 revision of the National Electrical Code (NFPA 70) requires that when installing a new cable system in a building all the old flammable unused communication cable must be removed. I anticipate the next revision in 2007, it will require all flammable cable even if it?s in use be replaced and removed during renovation and sometime in the future, maybe as early as 2009, all flammable cable will have to be removed from all buildings period.

Another side issue is the lead that was used in making the PVC for the cable jacket. Currently in California and Maine (soon nationally) the old cable will not be allowed in landfills so over the next few years this will become a very expensive problem for building owners and a major business opportunity for cable removal companies.

<font color="#FFFFAA" size="1">[ June 16, 2005 10:30 AM: Message edited by: travelinman ]</font>

[travelinman]

If you look at the chart from the article I posted you will see that PVC per pound has almost the same fuel load as gasoline.

Think about just the WTC telephone riser cables which are the cables running vertically up the building in the core shafts normally alongside the elevators

Two 110 story towers

25 feet per level or 2750 feet

Published total population of 50,000

Two pair of copper wires per phone or 100,000 wire pairs total 50,000 per tower

1500 pair cable is 7.30 pounds per foot

? the cable weight is PVC or 3.65 pounds

50,000 / 1500 = 33 cables

33 x 3.65 = 120.45 pounds per foot

Estimate average cable length to be half the total distance

2750 / 2 = 1375

1375 x 120.45 = 165,618.75 pounds of a material with almost the same fuel load as gasoline being struck by a plane fully loaded with jet fuel.

That kind of fire and the heat generated in a small area such as the rise shafts and you will melt the structural steel that is holding the building up.

<font color="#FFFFAA" size="1">[ June 16, 2005 11:06 AM: Message edited by: travelinman ]</font>

[Lew]

Well, I have no problem with people looking into the wiring (or design, or whatever) of the buildings. Maybe there is some merit. I'm talking more of the alien spacecraft weapons theorists.....